Huge archive

Jan,
I'm glad you have found a wig that looks so good on you. They have
definitely come a log way. My mom bought one about 10 years ago because
she wanted her hair to grow long, but it was so brittle that the sun
would dry it out nad it would break off. So she hid it under the wig and
it started to grow in nicely without having to deal with the sunlight
and stuff. Her wig looked natural too, and no one ever realized that
shw was wearing a wig and I've heard that they also have natural hair
wigs (ie. someone donates or sells the wig makers their long hair and
they make a wig out of that). I know of one organization that people
donate their hair to for them to make wigs for children who are going
thru chemo, etc. that causes them to lose their hair. Those are donated,
but I also know that manufacturers of wigs also make them available to
everyone when people sell them their hair, but those are expensive.
I hope the gelatin will help your hair grow in too, but it does take a
while to start working from what I've heard and I know it's made my hair
less brittle (I have very dry hair). I figured it was worth a try right?
Let me know how it goes and congrats on the wig.
Kimber
--
Kimber Allen
Vallejo, CA
hominid2@...
Note: All advice given is personal opinion, not equal to that of a licensed
physician or health care professional.

Robert! Welcome home! I'm so glad to hear of your escape. When you are
rested you must tell us how you did it. Was it the file in the salami
or tying the bedclothes and going over the wall? (big grin)
Seriously, are things more under control now? I was very worried. Ok,
go rest and drop us a line when you are able.
Barbara (in Canada)

Hey Guys,
I just got out of the hospital and back at home. There is a major
snow/ice that hit the area. The hospital is running on a limited
staff. There are mega problems at Spartanburg Regional Medical Center
in Upstate South Carolina. I told them I was going to tell them,
they sort of thought this would only be to a few. Have they got a
surprise!!!!! I will fill you in later tonight. I got a million
things to catch up on, including rest. Thanks for the thoughts and
prayers they saved my life.
God Bless you All,
Robert

Well, I warned him! I can't wait for Pat to get his mail in about a
week! HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE! He is going to blow a gasket big time!
Lisa
Simi Valley, CA

Hey PAt who you yelling at? Did you not see that I gave her many
good and reliable resources? If not, go back to her message and at
the bottom will be a link to my repl,,,,

Hi Jan!
I was reading your post about your hair falling out and I thought of something.
Has the Doctor checked your thyroid? If you have a low thyroid your hair will
fall out in handfuls! Mine did. Also can you possibly be pre-menopausal? This
can also make your hair fall out in droves. It is just a simple blood test to
check for both. I know with our problems it is easy for us to just forget that
when we are mal-nourished our bodies just go haywaire!
Lisa
Simi Valley, CA

but isn't he a PAIN too !?!?! :):)

I'm south of Seattle, north or Tacoma, west of th mountains and east
of the Pacific ! :)
Our weather is not bad tho it is s'posed to get bad (terrible rains)
starting tonight or tomorrow.
Indiana (Midwest, we're the "Northwest") is at least 1500 miles away
from us...from the Midwest to the Eastern Seaboard they are having a
terrible time with snowstorms this winter...even North Carolina is
socked in and they had to declare a state of emergency !
Our snow was from the 31st of Dec til the 8th of Jan...
Thanks for asking !
Jeannine

Hi Jan, like Pat i have to sneak about to go on line, as i am trying
to stay out of er. Well should i say putting it of, cos i know i
will probaly end up there. I spoke briefly to Denise last night, she
is back at home, is still very fragile, but at least she is home.
ReeAnn is not to good either, i did promise them i would go to er,
if i do not improve by friday. I will of course keep my promise, so
after friday i might not be posting for awhile, ok.I hope you are
feeling better today, and are not in to much pain, take care of
yourself,and do not over do thing`s. I do hope now that Denise is
home she will recover quickly, as she really has alot to cope with.
Poor thing, my heart does go out to her. Not forgetting, ReeAnn,
Pat, Robert,Bruce,and every one else. you are all in my thought`s
and prayer`s 24/7. best wishes to all, Jac.xox

Thank you so much for letting us know what's going on. I, too, have those
twitches or mostly jerks quite often. It's really a strange feeling.
Also...... i nod off instantly just as your dad does. My Tom says it's the
morphine. He's usually right. Didn't Pat say he was switched to morphine?
I take msir 30 ,,,,, 6 times a day plus morphine sulfate 60 every 8
hours. It's hard to concentrate on things and i have a difficult time
talking.... Does he? Please keep us informed.......... you sound just like
your Dad............ we'll have to love you, too! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh your
poor mother...... she has her hands full........ to aay the least! She gets
at least 2 candles today.! In all seriousness........ i will work hard
praying for him today as i have been doiing with our Robert who is in the
hospital and Denise. It seeems like a really rough time of it. I really
will hope to pray that your dad does go to the hospital.. they need to find
out the reasons for all of these things going on. this is not all from
pancreatitis......... i believe. Thank you so much.......... God bless all
of you. love, jan xox Gareth........ if you would...... please tell
your dad i have really stinky smelling candles i'm lighting for him!! he!he!
and i'll blow the wind his way!!! That'll bring him to his senses ! he!
he!

It sounds to me like your house is like a 3 ring circus!! he!hE! Living
with a dad like yours must never be dull or boring! I am laughing to
mysellf as i read your post about your dad. He is something else.......
and we all just love him. Thanks for telling us about his fall..
GGGeeeeseee...... i'll be lighting more candles for him and i'll put that
white light around him. The pain med's can make one very dizzy ( even
without blond hair) . Most of the pharmists have a warning on the labels
that read May cause dizziness! Well....... they make me very dizzy......
like i've been drinking a hole lot! ( i don't drink at all)
Gareth,..... thanks for letting your dad spend so much time with us. He is
a tremendous help making us laugh! i always look for his posts and enjoy
laughing out loud..... when no one's at home but myself, the dog and the
cat! Theree hasn't been tooo much to smile about more less laugh........
but your sweet dad gets me everytime........... God bless him and you and
your mom. Ohhhhhhhhhhh i'll be praying for him today with candles going .
This house is full of light from all the candles burning in prayer for all
that are in pain. That's alot of candles. I say a prayer for your
dad,......... kiss the candle and say, in Jesus name please help Pat today
in the way only YOu can do. amen. then i light the candle and let the flame
go straight up to GOd. When it flickers........ i know i've been heard. May
God bless you always........ and if there's anything at
alllllllllllllllllllllllllllll i can do for all of you...... please ask.
I would love to write you a letter......... snail mail.......... if it's
alright with you. I understand if you don't want to give out your
address........ but i love to write letters and receive mail. It' makes my
day. love , jan xox

I sent his nibs a special email message carrying threats that should
he not behave and stay in bed AND away from the computer, gerbils
would be the least of his problems. I begged him not to make me send
the Lucky Charms leprechan over there to stuff little marshmallow
stars up his nostrils.
All joking aside, all of us here care very much for Pat and his
generous nature. While we will miss him, we want him to rest and get
strong. I don't know about the other members but I'm not going to play
with him until next week. While his shenanigins are amusing, his being
so ill is NOT funny and we are worried about him.
If it is not too much trouble, perhaps you, Garreth or your brother
can send us a little message over the weekend and let us know how many
men it took to keep him down and in his jammies.
Please know that I keep you all in my thoughts and send wishes that
the docs get to the bottom of things so that Pat can again, come out
to play.
Barbara (in Canada)

Hi Jan,
The only doctor around here that knows anything
about pancreatitis is my GI and as I said before he
has never given me any pain meds. I am going to look
for a new PCP-I'm going to ask the GI today if he can
help me find a GOOD doctor. I just can't go through
this anymore!!!! I'm so stressed out!!!!
I can almost bet that I have got something else
wrong with my hips. They hurt so bad. Some mornings
when I get out of bed and step on my left leg, my leg
just gives out from underneath me!! It hurts to sit!!!
My PCP blames it on fibromyalgia---don't believe it is
that.
I can't print off anything-my printer is messed
up!!!
I live in the Bangor, Maine area. I had to go 300
miles away to have my surgery!!! They don't even do
them at the neareast hospital.
I think I'm screwed!!!!!!
Thanks,
Donna Goodine
Hermon, Maine

I, too have had my hair all fall out. It's been 3 months now and it's
trying to come in....... little fuzz and stilll i see hair in the shower
drain. I am told it is from stress and partly the disease. Frankly. i
don't think anybody really knows. Kimber told me to start taking gelatin
tablets..... whic i have now for a week. I'm hoping for results. It is so
awful to lookk like this. First my sides of my head fell out.........
leaving the top of my head and the back with hair. Then the top and back
came out, too. I have become very depressed about this. I have also lost my
sight in myright eye and my hearing in my right ear........ due to an
antibiotic vancomyacin. Do not evver take this! The doc's never told me
that this all could happen. My mother.......... took me out yesterday to aa
wig place............ and i wa ss kicking and screaming all the way.
Well..... to make a long story short.. they had a wig that is just like my
hair in the picture in the files.! I was tthrilled when she put it on
me! I felt like myself again......... and it fdoes not look like a wig at
all! My mom paid for it......... cause she knows how upset i've been and
cannot afford $200.00 for a wig. Tom is very pleased with it and can't
believe how naaatural it looks. It really looks good......... natural.
So... i'll be wearing it until my hair grows back. It's bad enough to feel
and look sick all the time. At least, now i don't look as sick..... cause
i have hair! I've been told that antibiotics and stress can make your hair
fall out...... howeve4r they say it will grow back. It's been3 moonths for
me now. 3 long months and i've been wearing hats because i refused a wig.
What a mistake i'e made for 3 months now. I'm smiling inside and
out......... desppite the pain. I would get the gelatin tablets and try
them.... Jello does the same thing....... however i cannt stand
jello.......... yuck........ i'm full of it! My heart goes out to
you........... i know how you feel. but i'd try the gelatin and look into
a wig.......... they've come a long way since the 80's......... very
naatural. I hope i've helped in some way, ......... love, jan xox

Hi... it's jan again........... get rid of that idiot doc. She has no
business treating you . She is MIS-treating you!!! Where do you live? I'm
in florida and have great docs. I would be eilling to call my docs and ask
if they know of a good pain mgmt doc and PCCP if you tell me whre you
live? Pat is soooo right, here. You do not need to be in this situation
and in this kind of pain. It's ridiculous that this woman claims to be a
doc? Fire her. I'm praying for help for you, sweetheart....... let me
know where you are and i'll get busy. love, jan xox

Dear Laura,
I appreciate your suggestion of the morphine pump,
but I have to fight with my DR just to get Vicodin.
This is going to change though, I've got to do
something about this as it really stresses me out and
we all know what stress does!!
I see my GI today and I am going to ask him to
reccommend a PCP that will treat me properly for my
conditions.
I will let you all know what happens.
Thanks, hope you have a good day!
Donna Goodine
Hermon, Maine
P.S. Here in my area there aren't any doctors who
know anything about pancreatitis.

It's me, jan...... and lat Aprill 2003 i had the whipple and 9 other
surgeries at the same time. i am still in pain.... the same pain if not
stronger than before the surgery. I am told by my pain management doc
that it is a very serious and delicate operation and takes a
llllllllllllllllong time to recover............ and probably never be oout
of pain. This is due to all the cutting they've done and the pancreas is
very sensitive. Also the scar tissue can be causing the bad pain. That's
what they attribute mine to///// I was cut from side to side....... 14
inches! and believe me that's a big one! My pain still bounces from sie to
side like it did before the surgery. and sometimes my entire middle is
hurting....... mostly after i eat a litttle something. By that i mean 3-4
bites of something. I am on morhpine msir30 2 tablets or 6 a day
plus morphine sulfate 60 every8 hours, xanax 3 times a day, reglan 4 tablets
3 times a day. ducolox 5 a day + 2 stool softners. The combination of
morphine and xanax have helped tremendously as it keeps the acids down by
keeping my nerves at bay. I have hereditary pancreatitis now for 9 yrs. I
strongly suggest you get a pain management octor to help you.
Mine is a sweetheart and listens very well to my babble when i see him.
Baack to the scar tissue that is growing from the incision....... it will
keep on growing and get hard like bone and disable what ever it is growing
on. It's extremely painful and i cannot go without the morphine. Please
take this to your doctor .... He should know that scartissue is painful as
can be. I sure hope he listens to you...... he doesn't feel your
pain................... only YOU do.... and you have to tell him how
unbearable it is to hav e to live in this kind of pain is barbaric! Ask him
to please help you live a somewhat normal life. we will never be pain
free...l so i am told with my condition... but we can have help because
there are med's for us ~~~~ we need them to help us. Be nice to him and
ask him to please help you.......... please.. Let me know how it
goes? love, jan. i'll be thinking of you and sending prayers.. a candle
is already lit for you.

01/26/04
Donna have you ever talked to your doctor about a morphine pump
that they implant. They take the old morphine out every 2-3 months
and put new in.
I know you don't know me, I'm pretty new to the site, but I have
Heriditary Pancreatitis and they have tried everything on me. In the
year of 2000 , they implanted this pump and it has helped my pain .
I to have Fibromylisia, it doesn't do a lot of help for that pain.
They recently started to put in a numbing medicine in with the
morphine and it does seem to help. You also can have them up the
amount your getting if you start to have more pain everyday.
I'm not sure that you have one of these, but if not, it might be
worth asking your doctor about. I go to the pain clinic to have it
put in. Then every 5 yrs. you have to have a new pump put in, that's
the only thing I wasn't to happy about.
I still have my good days and BAD DAYS, but the pump has really
helped me to cope with some of the pain.
Sincerely,
laura_kerste@...,
Toledo, Ohio

Brenda,
Have you lost a lot of weight from cp? If so, that could be the cause of the
hair loss. If that is the cause, once your weight stabilizes and you begin
getting enough nutrition, your hair will probably grow back. I lost about 1/3
of my hair when I lost weight very rapidly. Once my weight stabilized, my hair
started growing back. It was pretty funny, because I had all this new hair
growth that was evident around my face and above my ears. Thank goodness I have
curly hair, so it mostly blended in. Also, thank goodness I initially had
enough hair for about 3 people.
Also, some meds can cause hair loss.
Most of my hair grew back but it was just about the time it was getting thick
again that I had to be on a fair amount of prednisone for several months because
of my liver disease and it caused some hair loss. Once they got my prednisone
dose below 5 mg daily, my hair started growing back. Now I have the little
curly new growth again! Currently I probably still have enough hair for 2
people, but it's still scary when I see more hair than usual in the brush. I
know it's kind of vain, but I absolutely love my hair. It's long, red, and
curly. It's not at all uncommon for a stranger to come up to me and say "your
hair is absolutely beautiful" so the thought of losing it is rather distressing.
Any time the body is under tremendous stress, it's not unusual to have hair
loss. When the body is not getting enough nutrition to sustain everything, it
quits doing the things that are not necessary to keep you alive such as
producing hair. You may notice that your nails become thin or grow much slower
than usual, too, if your nutrition is at the root of the hair loss. Sometimes
doctors will put people on prenatal vitamins to help with hair loss.
I think that it is certainly something you should bring up at your next dr.
appt. There may not be anything the doctor can do, but he at least needs to
look at your meds and nutritional status to see if either is to blame.
Oh, there are some illnesses that cause hair loss. The one that comes to my
mind is an underactive thyroid. I think some female problems such as polycystic
overian disease (might not be the exact right term) can also cause hair loss.
That's why I think you should at least mention it to your doctor. That way he
can rule out something going on medically that may need treatment.
Take care,
Karen

Jan,
No - you have me confused with Karyn from another pancreatitis group. Yes, she
does still have the group and the web site, too, I guess. She was a nurse and
is quite knowledgeable. She has done a lot to promote the awareness of cp.
As of March 2003, I'm a retired systems analyst, but have always found medical
stuff quite fascinating. I did work as a unit secretary at a hospital way back
when I was about 20/21. I picked up some knowledge and medical jargon there -
along with the ability to read doctor's writing most of the time. I thought
about being a nurse at one point, but then decided I didn't like the prospect of
working nights or weekends. Part of my knowledge of medical stuff is out of
necessity. When your health picture is as complex as mine, you better make darn
sure you understand stuff so you can keep the doctors straight!
Thank you very much for the compliment. You are too kind. Sometimes I think I
am mostly just good at running my mouth!
Karen

Louie,
If your husband is a nut, I am quite sure both my hubby, Bud, and I would love
him! Sometimes people just shake their heads at us and tell us we are wacky!
However, I do think that laughing is better than crying. We do all need a good
cry now and then, though! Not long after finding out about my liver disease, my
poor hubby made the mistake of making a joke about it when I was trying to be
serious. We were in the car so he could not see the tears streaming down my
face. I was talking about the possibility of a liver transplant and he was
joking! BAD MOVE! I didn't tell him til the next day how much he upset me. He
actually had tears in his eyes when he aplogized. He said, "you know that I'm
just stupid and making a joke was just my way of dealing with something that
scares me so much I don't even like to think about it." I told my shrink about
it a few days later and then just as I was telling my shrink about it, I cracked
up laughing. I told my shrink that I was really being unfair to Bud since I
often make jokes about my illnesses myself, but then I told the shrink that I
didn't want anyone joking about my illnesses unless I was in the mood to joke
about them! The shrink told me he thought that was perfectly fair because in
reality there is nothing funny about liver disease, transplants, or dealing with
any other chronic illness. So, I told Bud what the shrink had said and he
agreed that was fair. I am the one who must deal with all these stupid diseases
and he would not joke or laugh about them unless I was in the mood to joke and
laugh about them! He has kept his word on that. Most days I am able to joke
and laugh about my illnesses and my stupid body because I truly do think
laughing is better than crying. Crying makes your nose run, gets your contacts
cloudy, and wastes precious kleenex tissues!
As I write this, I have tears streaming down my face. Not really sad tears at
all. Tears at the realization of how very lucky I am to have such a wonderful
husband by my side. Tears at the realization of how lucky I am to have such
great doctors, friends, and family! Not to mention great health insurance,
also!
Well, enough - I need to think of a good joke as Bud will be home soon and he
may want to cook dinner with my daily dose of rat poison in it! Today I've felt
okay, but then all I've eaten is one piece of cheese and a cracker! Bud is
going to fuss at me when he gets here and realizes that once again I've had
virtually no protein. I think I'll try a yogurt drink or glucerna or maybe some
chocolate soy milk so I can tell him I've had a little protein at least. Geez,
if someone had told me a few years ago that I'd have to make myself eat, I might
have died laughing! However, anyone with CP will certainly understand that on
many days, food or even water has no appeal at all! I tell people that if I
could just quit eating, I'd be perfectly fine! That's not 100% true, but for
the most part, as long as I don't eat or drink anything my pain and nausea are
not so bad.
It just occurred to me - maybe Bud spiked my soy milk or yogurt drinks with rat
poison and that's the problem. He might even have added it to the tap water!
Who knows? You want to hear something really funny? Bud's ex wife is really
wacko - I'm not even saying that to be mean - it's just true. Anyway, for about
a year she insisted that husband number 4 was poisoning her. Now, they had 5
kids between the two of them. The kids ate and drank the same things she did
and they never got sick, but she was insistent that he was poisoning her. She
ended up leaving him and still insisted he was poisoning her. She would go to
great lengths telling how he had brought her some chocolate milk or something
like that. Once she even said she had brought the milk to the police and they
found something in it and were sending it to some lab in Atlanta. She truly
believed the guy was trying to poison her, but even her kids knew she was just
psycho!
Now that I think about that, maybe it was really Bud (he was her first husband)
that has been poisoning her all these years. Maybe he's got it down to a fine
art and he can poison people but he has some sort of special pill he takes to
keep it from affecting him! Who knows?
I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself. I do hope everyone knows that I am joking.
My hubby would never hurt a flea! Although, the story that his ex swore (and
still does to this day) that her 4th husband was trying to poison her is true.
She's now with guy number 5. She just had baby number 4 three months ago, with
guy number 5, who is daddy number 4. He's still married to wife number 1, so
he's not yet hubby number 5, just guy number 5 and daddy number 4! Okay, I
have to quit! Well, I am no longer crying as you can imagine! I could go on
forever about Bud's ex and you guys would never believe I was telling the truth!
One day I'm going to write a book about it. Her life would make a truly
unbelievable soap opera!
Take care,
Karen

Louie,
I'm so glad you now have a good pcp. It can really make the difference in
getting help when you are a complex patient. My new pcp - internal med doc - is
responsible for calling in my current GI/hepatologist. He specializes in both
liver and pancreas problems because, in his words, he 'finds the liver and
pancreas to be incredibly fascinating organs'. He is the one that finally said
that I absolutely have CP in addition to the autoimmune hepatitis. He told me
recently that I am his 'most complex and unusual patient'. Not words you really
want to hear from a specialist! However, I am thankful for the current doctors
I have. I think I am in very good hands. I have good days and bad days, just
like the rest of us with cp. To be honest, the liver disease is much easier to
live with than the cp. I'm not trying to make light of liver disease. It can
be very serious. Without treatment, the 10 year survival rate for AIH is only
10%. My liver responded well to the prednisone, which, thank goodness, we have
now been able to decrease. Talk about major PMS and mood swings, try being on
prednisone for several months! It's a wonder my hubby let me live! I'm now on
just 2.5 mg of prednisone daily and 100 mg of imuran (an immunosuppressant) and
the AIH seems to be pretty well under control. I consider myself very lucky
because the AIH was progressing rather quickly it seems because when my old GI
finally did the biopsy on Dec 27, 02, it revealed stage 3 fibrosis. They grade
damage to the liver on a scale of 0 to 4, with 0 being none and 4 being
cirrhosis. I was well on my way to cirrhosis. Once you have advanced
cirrhosis, a liver transplant is pretty much just a matter of time. Hopefully,
the damage to my liver has been slowed to the point that I will never have to
face a transplant.
Anyway, my main point to all of that is that of all the chronic illnesses I have
to deal with, CP is by far the toughest for me. Again, not trying to make light
of my other illnesses - AIH, systemic lupus, autoimmune clotting disorder, and
type II diabetes. They can all be serious - it's just that I'm lucky enough to
not have the worst case scenario with any of my illnesses, including the CP.
However, if given the choice of getting rid of just one illness - I'd pick
getting rid of the CP hands down. However, so far I haven't been given that
option so I live with it the best that I can. I've had 3 celiac plexus blocks,
but so far I can't really tell that they have helped one bit. However, I am
under the care of a great internal med doc, great GI/hepatologist, great pain
management doc, and great rheumatologist so they keep me in as good a shape as
is possible under the circumstances.
It sounds like things are not going so well for you, my friend - and I do
consider you my friend, also. Please do take care and insist that they find out
for sure what is going on with your liver. It is entirely possible that a lot
of the things you have going on could be related to a liver that's not
functioning at peak performance.
Keep me posted on what you find out.
Karen

Pat,
thank you for your kind post. It sounds like you are in very good hands. I
probably worry a little too quickly over doctors dismissing elevated liver
enzymes. My old GI insisted my liver was 'perfectly healthy' despite very
elevated liver enzymes and my internal med doc insisting I needed a liver
biopsy. After over 4 months of saying my liver was fine, my GI did a liver
biopsy. My 'perfectly healthy' liver revealed a very classic case of autoimmune
hepatitis. In my old GI's defense, it is indeed rare to have a patient with
AIH. The odds are only about 1 in 100,000 or 1 in 150,000, depending on where
you read the numbers. It is even more uncommon to have a patient with both CP
and AIH, but then - HERE I AM! I have both liver disease and CP, yet neither
has anything to do with alcohol. Nor do they have anything to do with blood
transfusions, tattoos, IV drugs, or any risky behavior.
Those of you who get aggravated because ER docs often assume that if you have
CP, you must be a closet alcoholic. Frankly, it really does make a darn bit of
difference if you are/were an alcoholic. You are still deserving of the best
treatment available. You still deserve to be treated with kindness, dignity,
and respect. Anyway, add liver disease to a diagnosis of CP and you have MANY
ignorant people who think you must have done it to yourself by drinking! Excuse
me - could you please tell me the definition of AUTOIMMUNE? Very simply, it
means that ones own immune system is attacking something in the body as if it
were foreign and doesn't belong there. In the case of AIH, my wacky immune
system has decided my liver does not belong! Sorry, to get on my soap box.
It's just that you would not believe how many people, even in the medical field
don't know what the term autoimmune means. Sometimes I feel like I need a sign
that says 'yes, I have both liver disease and chronic pancreatitis - but NO, I
didn't get either by drinking - I really didn't care much for alcohol before I
got sick and I sure as heck don't touch it now!'
Sorry - it just makes me mad that we have to defend how we ended up with CP so
often and then when you add liver disease, too - well, you get the picture.
I'm glad to know your doctors are investigating things further and not just
blowing off your elevated liver enzymes. By the way, I've sure you've already
read that pitting edema can go along with a liver that's not functioning well.
However, it can also go with a million other things!
Take care and let us know what comes of your doctor visits.
Karen

Gareth,
You need to chain that man to the bed and make him do what he is supposed to do.
That's it! Tell him I am sending the guinea pig in the mail first thing in the
morning. I have trained him to be a watch dog since that is what your father
needs. He needs a good little watch dog to sit on his chest and make him stay
still and get better! He will be a good boy and just sit there and watch him.
I know your father will love to hear this. He needs to be committed to the phyc
ward if he doesn't stop this foolishness! Ask your father if he has already
started digging his own grave since he is so damned determined to be in one! He
is in so much trouble with me! I wish I wasn't afraid to fly or I would be on a
plane (with the guinea pig) over there to sign him in to the hospital myself!
Gareth, we love your dearly and he is so pig headed he is a danger to himself
right now! You did not say how he hurt himself, did he fall? Maybe you can
stress to him that he is putting undue stress on your mam by being so stubborn.
He probably thinks if he is in the hospital she will only worry about him, but
he needs to understand that they can at least watch him carefully and take that
stress off of your mam. Your mam is a true angel to be able to live with your
father! Please keep us posted and make sure he listens to you and the doctors.
If I have to I will get on plane (which I am deathly afraid of) and go
straighten him out myself! Good luck with your father and please let us know
how he is.
Lisa
Simi Valley, CA

No idea what happened that time, suddenly the whole page seemed to be
on the move and then it was gone, vvvvvvvvvvvvvvrommmmmm!! Away like
a stock car
finish off about Pat, Dad to me.
When he would not agree to come in to the hospital they brought the
specialist he see down to talk to him and to convince him to stay in,
just for observation, he would be out sometime tomorrow, probably.
He wasn't having any of it, he was going home, end of story.
While looking for ways to convince him to stay, the specialist
mentioned this new thing they were checking out for him, but Mam had
no idea what they were talking about, Dad has never told her they
tested him for this stuff.
SHE IS LIKE A CRAZY PERSON WITH HIM BECAUSE OF IT; SHE IS REALLY
UPSET, REALLY UPSET INDEED.
Anyway, he would not go into hospital for them he was coming home no
matter what anyone said, so they just had to say ok, but come in
urgently if he is unwell, with anything.
My Mum does not know what she can do to make this man rest and take
things easy, he thinks she does not know what he is up to but she is
no fool,
She turned a blind eye so long as he rested up and got some strength
back.
He looked a fright for the past 6 weeks or more, looked really sickly
and pale.
His skin is all flaking and he used to look after it so well, we
teased him all the time, saying he probably went out in Drag at
night. He is not well and it shows in his face, drawn and he has big
black bags under his eyes.
But that's not why I am writing to you, Mum asked me to, she is
anxious that you know what's happening, she knows how much you all
mean to Dad.
But she has now become determined that he will rest and take it easy,
so he will not be online for a few days at least, and longer if he
does not co-operate with her. She is not trying to make him unhappy
or miserable, but she is concerned he will have an attack or another
stroke if he does not get some rest and some sleep. Plus, if he has a
major attack of this pancreatitis while he is run down, he may not
get well again too easily.
Just so you know where he is, and what's going on, that's what she is
keen to insure. She has promised him he can do ONE post a day, but
not before Friday or Saturday, and only if he behaves. Honestly, he
was just like a big kid, trying to convince her to let him post "just
one, I promise I won't cheat again, Lily, just one, please?" Could
we just pack him up and send him of to some of you/ LoLLoLLoLLol
Dad has something else going on in his body, something called
Myoclonus or similar, it's causes Jerks, or Jumps, it seems we all
feel some of it when we are falling asleep and we get a feeling like
we are falling, or that our arm or leg Jerks, very suddenly, I know
what this feels like, it happens just when you fall asleep, it's a
real weird feeling, the doctors told Mum that's what it' like.
Dad noticed this strange thing happening about 6 weeks before
Christmas and he never said anything at home about it. But he did
tell the doctor in the hospital that he had these strange jerks and
twitches happening all the time.
They thought it was from too high dosage of morphine, but he had not
started on morphine when these jerks started.
Then they did some other more detailed tests on his central nervous
system but they had to be sent to some laboratory in either Canada or
the USA,
I'm not sure which. He never told Mum about all of this, she knew of
the jerks, they would happen all the time in bed but he convinced her
it was just the thing that happens when you fall asleep, and she
believed him, it happens to everyone, her included.
Well, he has had trouble staying awake, he will just fall asleep at
the drop of a hat, he will be talking to you and you can see his eyes
begin to close, scary, real scary, when he stops talking, in the
middle of a word sometimes, if you don't prompt him, his head will
usually fall forward, or if he is propped against pillows or his high-
back recliner, his head will fall back or to the side, and if you
leave him, he will just sleep like that. But, if you touch him, he
kind of jumps, and wakes up, insisting he was not asleep, he's a
crazy man, you have to laugh with him, not at him, laugh with him, he
is never serious, everything he does makes you laugh, he's a lunatic,
a kind loving lunatic, but a lunatic all the same!
This is what we believe happened him today, he was sitting in bed, he
was leaning forward, typing on his laptop, he had sneaked it from the
boot of Mam's car during the night, [did you ever think you would
hear of a grown man doing this? He's mad, you will not agree, but he
is, he's off the rails, God love him!] And he must have just fallen
asleep and then fell over and of the side of the bed. His side of the
bed is close to the wall with the window, he likes to be able to look
out, and the space between the bed and the wall is a little narrow,
about 3 to 4 feet. He seems to have hit his head off the locker as he
fell; there was blood along a corner and down the edge so it seems to
fit in with what he thinks happened. He admits he thinks he had a
pretty severe one of these Jerks or Twitches, this Myoclonus or
whatever it's called.
Mam is upset because she asked one of the younger doctors today when
Dad was speaking with the specialist about not staying, and he told
her it could be caused by a number of things, it could even be
Parkinson's, or some other neurological diseases, it could even be an
early part of this Mad Cow Disease, Croyfeld Jakobz disease or
something like that.
Dad would probably know how to spell it but I'm not too sure, but it
sounds like that and I know the sound of the name.
We certainly hope that it's not one of these really serious diseases,
but the doctor told Mam that it really could be, that's why the
test's had to go to the USA or Canada or where ever they went and
they take along time to do because the yare so complex.
On a more positive note, it could be caused by the spinal injury he
has, he was very lucky to survive that and then to have a successful
surgery on it so many years later. Hey, I just used the
word `Positive', I better watch out; he must be rubbing off onto
me!!!!
We will try to keep you all updated, but we are all pretty busy, I'm
busy looking for a new lady to share my life with, and Mam won't come
near the PC, especially now when she is trying to keep him away from
it and Wesley, my brother, is a chef, and he has pretty weird hours
he works, it is perfect for him though, he's pretty weird himself!!!!
Good Night, I hope I have not bored anyone, this started as a "Quick
not for Mam, maybe I'm as crazy as my Dad, poor fellah, he has a
heart of gold, I would be happy id I was as good as he is.
Gareth

Hello to everyone,
This is Pat's son Gareth again, yes, your correct, it does mean
something is not is right.
It's not too nice to know that every time I have to do this it means
that Dad is not well.
Again.
Lily, well Mam, came home today from work this afternoon and she
found Pat, Dad, in his bathroom trying to get a cut on his head to
stop bleeding.
There was a great big mess, he takes Warfarin to thin his blood,
because of the stroke in the past, and this was making it very
difficult for him to stop the bleeding. Fortunately, the injury is in
an area where the silly man has some hair left. Mam told him it was
the only sensible thing he has managed in a long time! They are
always taking little pot-shots at each other, always joking around,
he drives her mad all the tricks he plays on her. She probably
thought he was joking this time at first!!
She wanted to call an ambulance for him, he is not really very well
anyway, but he would not allow that he got angry and she held back
not to upset him.
She got his head bandaged up, he looked so funny with the big white
turban on him, crazy looking but it did emphasize how pale he has
become, and his facial skin colour is terrible, he looks really ill.
He insisted she take him to the doctor, but she knew he needed the
hospital, she was determined to have his head X-Rayed.
Of course the doctor told him "your mad Patrick, what do you think
this is a small hospital, go off and get your self X-Rayed and see if
there's any brain left in you"!!!! They all know what he's like and
they josh him along as well.
They X-rayed him and thank God there are no fractures or other
worries, he only needed about 4 proper sutures, the others they used
are the kind of paper sutures and they used the special Superglue to
keep the wound closed.
They had him booked in for admission but he would not go in, said he
spends enough time in there with all his other problems and he was
not signing on for more prison time thank you very much. We do not
know how the young doctors don't have a little `Poke' at him at
times, most of them are young guys or girls from all over the world
and the crazy man has them telling him about their countries and what
the hospitals are like, and of course, he questions them at length
about Pancreas disease, he drives them mad over it, and most of them
don't have a clue about it, and he complains then that they should
insist the colleges should teach them more about the pancreas.
By the way, is there a lady here named JAN? he tells them all about
her and how her family have a lot of doctors and they told her they
only get about 20 minutes teaching about the pancreas.
Mam says to tell JAN that her ears should have been red and ringing
today, he mentioned her and her cousin doctors over and over. He
never gives up on them, he makes them show him the notes they write
about him to make sure they never put down `ADDICT' or `ADDICTED' and
when they ask him why, he gives them a talk about ruining peoples
good names. Where does he get this from, he must drive you all as
mad as himself, does he?
OOPs, I think I did something wrong jst now

Donna....
Ask to go to a DIFFERENT pain clinic or pain doctor ! There are
plenty of things to be done...look up pain management in google or
altavista...you will see things like epidurals, nerve blocks,
morphine or baclofen pain pumps that are inserted into your abdomen,
or pain patches...if one doesn't work try something else...DO NOT
GIVE UP !!!! And do not let the docs stop trying to find the med or
combination of meds that will work for you !!!
You need a long acting med AND a breakthrough med...do NOT be
intimidated by your doctors...do not let them give up with you !
Read teh Pain Patient Bill of Rights (but that phrase in google and
you will find it)...better yet, we probably have it in our links
section...
Stay hooked up with us we will set you straight so you can set your
docotors straight !!!!!
Just remember you get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar
or lemon juice !
Try contacting FM Network at FMetnews.com or at 1-800-853-2929 and
ask them to send you a list of doctors in your state....or if you are
on the border of another state, ask for that state too ! You will
get information for support groups, lawyers, physical therapists and
doctors who treat FM. This is provided other p[atients have written
and given them this information !
Good luck luv !!!
Take Care.....Jeanninie

Besos to you ale, mucho besos mi amigo Grande!!
Is that how I should write to you the words:;
Kisse's to you Ale, much(Many?) Kisses my Great friend?? is OK?
Anyway, your words are filled with so much happiness and joy, and
your Love for Life is glowing from my screen!!
Your friends are probably telling you the truth Ale, why should you
not be looking well? True, weight lost through sickness is not good,
but your system will settle down soon.
Have you though of getting some vitamin supplements to help your
system recover? If you have had the severe "Toilet Issues" that most
of us have then you will have lost essential minerals and vutamins
while you were very ill.
You will need to use some extra good Moisturisers, and other nice
cosmetics.
Some of the LADIES in the gropu will no doubt give you the names of
some really good cosmetics.
You may not have had any need to use these things before your
illness, but if your skin gets to be as dry and flaky as my ancient
old skin did, then you may need to begin usinf some now.
Most of my male friends, the ones in my own age section anyway, were
always laughing at me because I used some expansive skin creams and
moisturusers on my face especially, and, of course, my hands.
I still do it now but I find that I will need to change some of them
as my skin is exceptionally dry.
There is an idea for a "clinic" on the board, everyone that uses
cosmentics could "meet" say once a month, and exchage ideas on the
best brands to use when skin is damaged or dryed out from this
illness that causes malabsorption and other problems that ultimately
show up on the outside of our bodies.
By Bye sle, for now at least, make sure you try to eat well and drink
plenty of fluids to keep your system well flushed out. This will help
eliminate the toxins and other nastys in your system because of this
awful illness.
You must take special care to keep your body well so you can have 22
bambinos to hel0p you when you get old!! Well, maybe not 22, perhaps
16 will do? HeHeHeHeHeHe!!! LoLloL ;¬}
Besos, mi amigo Ale,
May God bless you and keep you safe and well, and may His blessed
Mother, the Madonna, ask her Son, The Lord God, to bless you with a
happy life filled with the laughter and joy of many, many bambinos!

Pat,
You are so logical! I never thought of all that. I have anti-virus protection
and I guess I just assume everyone would have it. You are right, as
usual...........
Lisa
Simi Valley, CA

i recently have had alot of hair loss..didnt know if this was unusal
with pancreatitis..,from medications, or just stress..anyone
answer...ty brenda

re things up Seattle way? Or should that be Oregon? Are you getting
some pretty bad weather near to you?
I have a friend in Indiana, andm he was telling me he went into
church yesterday and all was fine, cold but no problem.
He is an older man by a long way too, but tough as old boots, but he
had to get some help to make two holes in his windscreen to see out
of and expected the rest od the thick ice to melt away as the heater
blew hot air ont the screen. then hi intended to have his wipers
clear it all away.
But it didn't!! The wipers simply froze solid to the glass!
He had to abondon his pick up and get a cab to get home from the cold.
Great to see you back, hope your doing well.
Pat

HEY EVERYONE!!!!
there is nor denying that a great many of us are down and out with
pain and illness for a few weeks now, but come on, there must be some
other member that can direct Donna to a good doc near her that will
give her the kind of serious help she needs.
This DEA thing is outof control if people are going to be treated
this way, but it's clear to me Donna, that your doctor is just hiding
behind the DEA business on this issue with you at least.
How long is it this guy has been treating you for pancreatic disease?
Too long it seems, so long that he has teken you for granted , not to
mention taking you ar your insurance company to the cleaners with
fees for doing very little, if anything at all!!!!
Doesn't matter whether these doctors are specialists about
Pancreatitis, they only have to go to the web pages of the famous
hospitals such as Johns Hopkins and the Mayo Clinic to READ what type
of pain meds are required to help people like you Donna.
Good point here Donna, have you visited the links on the site to the
many, many, great hospitals and clinics that are doing such great
work with Chronic Pain Patiens and especially those with Pancreatic
Pain, one of the worst there is. If possible you should go visit
these links and find the parts of the hospital sited that give the
details of the kinds of pain meds that you need to be getting, then
you should PRINT OUT the FACTS and take them with you to the
Specialsit when you see him next.
THEN YOU SHOULD CHANGE PCP'S, THE ONE YOU HAVR MAY BE A GREAT DOCTOR,
BUT NOT FOR YOU DONNA, YOU HEED TO HAVE A DOCTOR THAT WILL PRESCRIBE
THE PAIN MEDICATIONS THAT YOU NEED, PERIOD! CHANGE DOCTORS, NOW!
Honey, I understand, you have so much to deal with, you have other
issues in your life, and they need to be dealt with too. bot, if you
are in chronic pain all the time, then the other issuesinyour life
will be left to go to hell in a handbasket!
You can bet your life, and your bank account too, that the moment
that your doctor or some of your senators need the type of pain
medication that you need, the DEA would be told BACK OFF and NOW!
But they are not the problem for you Donna, this so called doctor is
just prepared to take your money or the money from your health
insurance company and do as little as possible in return.
I have asked the members in the USA to come try to helkp you some
more Donna, if it were possible for me to go over there to the USa
and go to your doctor with you then i would do it in a heart beat,
but it is not going to hapen honey, for all sorts of reasons too, but
I'm sure that some of the members will be able to at least get you
some doctors names. Maybe you should check out the list of doctors
names and deatails in our files section, will you go check if you
have not done it yet, sometimes we forget the simple thin gs when we
are tired from being in pain so badly.
Promise me you will post and tell me how you get on will you?
and keep your heart filled with the love of God and the Light of Hope
through the Power of Prayer. We are all with you Donna, never feel
alone when you face these doctors, know full well that the strength
of this FAMILY is with you, supporting you every painful inch of the
way.
God bless you Donna, and keep you safe and well,
Pat

and friends
How are you today mis amigos....
I had a grate weekend, one of my best friends is getting married, we
had a busy weekend with the final details for the wedding, I'm so
happy I was able to help her, I was in pain most of the time but I'm
so full of love, the pain was not important. I have lost some weight
so everybody were telling me how grate I look... yea!!! sure I hate
to loose weight this way. anyway I have a grate time and I hope to
have a grate week too.
Lisa, I'm so happy with my new Doct., she is a grate person and she
believes me. I know the baby has to wait for some time, is ok.
My amigo Pat... My prayers are with all of you and I did sent a
special prayer for Robert,BEFORE YOU TOLD ME!!!!;)... thanks for
remind me some times I get in my problem and I forget the rest of the
world.
Jan.....besos means kisses....Thanks for the candle and the payers.
Besos to all my friends, hope you have a good week.
Robet & Denise my payers to you, hope you fell better soon

Dear Pat,
I went to the pain clinic before the whipple and
they sent me back to my PCP after 4 visits. My PCP has
tried to get me back in and they tell her there is
nothing else that they can do for me other than what
she is doing!!!!!!
My GI has never in 6 years ever prescribed me pain
meds other than when I was in the hospital.
I don't know what I am going to do???
On top of the pancreas pain, I also have
fibromyalgia that is really acting up!! My hips and
butt bones hurt so bad that I can barely sit!!!!
HELP--HELLLLLPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!
Donna Goodine
Hermon, Maine

HELLO JAC!
You got caught, I was watching out for you and sure enough, you are
sneaking about, JUST LIKE ME!!!! 8 ¬ )).
When we are better and we are allowed by our families to be
"FREE AGAIN" we can get some sweatshirts with a logo on them and
form a little club for "night time pain crawlers", whart do you think
JAC? LoL LoL LoL.
God Bless
Pat
AND of course, hello Brenda, are you another NIGHT OWL too?

Hello Donna,
first of let me say that I have not had the WHIPPLE ---- YET!!!!
That does not mean that I cannot suggest something to you as a fellow
Pancratic disease sufferer, but most important of all Donna, as a
Fellow CHRONIC PAIN sufferer, and you are a chronic pain sufferer,
you were one before the WHIPPLE also, let me tell you that you are
entitled to PROPER EFFECTIVE PAIN CONTROL, PERIOD!
When you see the GI specialist, ask to be sent to see a Chronic Pain
Specialist, maybe I should have said DEMAND to be sent to one!!
You must get your pain under control, it is probably not realistic to
expect to have it stopped totally, nice to dream about, and please
God one day it will come to be, but meanwhile, you, and the rest of
us, are entitled to the BEST CARE that we can obtain.
Donna, decide before you go into the office of this GI Specialist
that you are not going to leave his office without the help you so
badly need, and the help yo are TOTALLY ENTITLED to, regardless of
the activities of the DEA!
Hope you hae a great visit, please post and tell us how you got on,
OK? Meanwhile, may
God Bless you and keep you safe and well,
Pat

Hi Lisa,
Do not take my comments in the wrong way, I trust you explicitly, and

Hi ya Brenda, how are you?? I have had a flare up, so have not been
about much, i am still fighting not to go into hospital. I have been
reading the post`s even though i had to do it sneaky,i am pleased to
see that you have joined, i did tell Mark and he was pleased for
you. We have such a good group, as i said before, it makes you feel
as if you are not alone. We all stick together, and support each
other. Which is exactly what we all need. I hope that you are not in
as much pain, and things have eased up abit, How is work going???
hope you had a great week-end, take care of yourself, and do not
push yourself to hard, take things easy ok. Jac.xox

Dear All,
I had the Whipple in May 2003, and have felt fairly
well until a couple of weeks ago. I am back to having
the horrible stabbing pain in the right side back
generating into the front. It's unbearable. My PCP
will not give me any stronger meds then Vicodin as she
is being investigated by the DEA! (That's really not
my problem!) I need you guys to help me!!I need to
hear from anyone who has had the Whipple and still
suffer from the Chronic Pain!! I have an appt. with
the GI tomarrow and need him to see that I am not
alone. He feels that I should not be in pain!! People
that don't suffer from this, just have no clue, do
they?
I only hope I can wait till tomarrow--I hate the ER
for all the same reasons everyone else does!
Please, let me hear from you Whipple sufferers ASAP!
Thanks,
Donna Goodine
Hermon, Maine

If i'm not mistaken... Karen was a nurse before she got so sick. She is
well versed when it comes to medicine. She also started a
website.......... for pancreatitis a few years ago....... but i think she
had to close it for health reasons... ithink. BUt she has alot to offer form
experience and training... besides that.......... she's a really sweet and
lovely lady. Karen. if you're reading this........ am i right? do you
still have the website....... or Kimber would know, too. She participated
there, too! Glad we have you both here........... you're both terrific
ladies.......... thanks.... love, jan xox

Hi Pat,
You have very serious problems and you still find time to worry about us
all. What a wonderful caring person you are. I didn't take Lipitor until
after I had my pancreatitis.
I don't know the name of the medicine they put me on why back then. It was
only of the older types. Lipitor is one of the newer ones in this country.
I think it's only been around for maybe 10 years, I don't think it been
around any longer than that, I maybe wrong. They never did find out what
did cause my pancreatitis. My husband did remember that in the early 70's,
I was on some medicine, and he remember that one of the side effects was
pancreatitis. The doctor did tell him that one of the side effect was
pancreatitis and it was a medicine that I should not be on the rest of my
life, because of the side effects. The doctor did say that the last thing
that I needed or wanted was pancreatitis. I was young at the time and I
had never heard of pancreatitis, so I wasn't concern at that time. I really
don't remember this happening, but my husband Ed does, so if he remember it
happening, I sure it did. We have no idea what the medicine was. I only
went to this doctor less than a year, as my husband consider him a pill
pusher. No matter, what you went to him for, you would end up with at least
5 RX. So one day my husband came home from work and saw the number of
pills I was taking and how I was trying to function and went into the
bathroom and flushed all the pills down the toilet. He said that I was on
so much medicine that they were in my body fighting each other and none of
them would know what to do. The next day he took he to another doctor, who
got me on the right medicine and help me get better. So my husband did
help me and probably save me from all lot more serious things happening to
me. He always takes good care of me. It seem like I have always had
something go wrong with me ever since we were just married a few years. I'm
very fortunate he has stick with me for 34 years. When they said in
Sickness and Health, he said I didn't have to take the sickness part
literally. Of course, he was just kidding me, like he always does.
Sometime I think his Sense of Humor is what keep me on my feet. He always
has my best interest in his heart and I'm very fortunate to have such a
caring and wonderful man, by my side. As for the medicine I take now is a
Generic form of Lopid, for the elevated fats in my blood. It's now 10PM her
and Snowing Hard, they have already put the Schools on a 2 hour delay for
tomorrow. I really expect them to cancel School for tomorrow. I hope I
will be able to get off my hill to make my doctors appointment on Monday. I
hope you are feeling just a bit better, even that would be a help.
Take Care,
Louie in WV

Louie my good friend, how are you today? I kope you are keeping well,
you need to be in good form to go see this new PCP tomorrow.
You mentioned in your post to karen that your triglyserides have been
elevated since 1979, and that you were on medication to lower them.
A question for you please my friend, did you develope your
pancreatitis after 1979?
I suspect that the meds to lowere your trygliserides is one of the
statins group, such as LIPITOR. Well Louie, if thats the type of
drug your taking, then it's just possible that the drug caused your
pancreatitis AND your fatty liver disease too!
Of course, if your pancreatitis had started prior to 1979 then ot
could not have been the statins you were given to lower your
cholesteroel but you should check it all out.
Good night Louie, try to sleep and rest well, and please, my friend,
if you have enough energy then post to us and tell us how you get on.
God bless you and keep you safe and well.
And you too Karen if you read this!!
BTW Louie,
Please do not be offended when I tell you something I keep meaning to
tell you.
My darling little puppy dog is named LOUIE too!!
He is a tiny little thing but he has a big heart, he thinks he#s a
rottweiller!! He has no fear in him at all and he weighs no more than
just under 3 Lbs, neared 2 1/2 really. his photo is on the site with
all the other albums, you can go see him anytime you want.

Dear Karen,
Bless you, my friend and I truly consider you my friend. How can I ever
thank you enough for those great site and the information you gave me on
Fatty Liver. Thank heavens , I have changed doctors, as my old doctor told
me that it was nothing to worry about and around 20% percents of Americans
have it and it from eating too much FATS and it has settled in your Liver.
Boy, oh Boy was he WRONG!!! I must get my husband away from him, before he
end up killing him. I have had a problem with my triglycerides being high
since 1979. They have had me on medicine for it off and on over the years.
Now, my old doctor just blamed my liver functions being high, due to my
lipids being high too. Maybe that's part of it, but I was never convinced
that was all there was to do with it.
Deep in my mind I keep on think that a fatty liver was not normal, but
couldn't find anyone to take me serious about it. I'm suppose to go to my
new PCP tomorrow (weather permitting) and I will definitely ask him to look
into this more. Maybe this is why I so tired all the time. I just blamed
it on my CP. Last summer when I was in and out of the hospital 3 different
times for a total of 31 days with an attack of pancreatitis and all my PCP
would do is give me IV's and pain and nausea medicines and keep me off food
for 4 or 5 days then put me on clear liquids and food and send me home for a
few days and I would end up back in there because I couldn't eat. I lost
over 25 pounds. All he did was a CT Scan and said no change from my last
one, so nothing could be done except let it rest. Finally the third time I
was in, I had to beg him to try TPN and after in a week and still couldn't
eat anything with horrific pain, my daughters said that was enough, you must
get to a new PCP and my oldest daughter did some research and found me this
really good one I have now. This doctor was very impressed with himself and
though he new how to treat everything, ( That was my old PCP, not my new
one.) Karen, I really know that you have been through so mush with your CP
and now your Liver problems. How are you Feeling? I hope you are doing ok.
I truly appreciate the information for sent me, and will definitely have my
doctor look into as soon as I get to him. I let you know the outcome.
Thanks again.
Take Care,
Louie in WV

HI Eileen,
Thank's for your post, I love to get a response when I post.
EILEEN, YOUR POST TELLS ME MORE ABOUT YOUR CLEARLY POOR TASTE IN MEN
THAN ABOUT THE JOYS OF MY WONDERFUL COUNTRY!!!!
The first thing that occurs to me is ; When did you stay here, and
where did you stay here also?
Every country has it's distinctive couisine, except your's, which
borrows it's cousine from all around the world. That's not a
criticism, it's a compliment and a statement of envy maybe. I love to
experience as many things as I can in life, and food is at the top of
my list.
It always amazes me when visitors to this country speak about the
over abundance of potatos in restaurants as they move around.
Honestly, this is DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED to my general experience when
travelling or dining out here. Bearing in mind that my commercial
background is mainly in sales and marketing and as a result, there is
hardly a town, village or city in this country that I have not
visited at least once. I think my exposure to eating out here is well
above average and one company I worked with was an American based
Multinational Alcoholic Beverages And wine Distributor, actually,
they were the largest in the world, and even now they are still the
largest in the US, having diversified into all manner of investments
including oil and gas exploration. Doubltless, you will be able to
identify the company if I say "Seven & Seven please" to the nearest
barperson!!
One important difference that visitors seem to overlook,is just how
small the market for anything is here. Our TOTAL POPULATION IS JUST
OVER 5 MILLION, and that's only grown substantially in the past 8 to
10 years, prior to that we actually had a net deficit each year in
our population.
Contrast that with the USA where you have Cities that have larger
populations than my Country.
Consequently, places like Chinese restaurants have to have as wide
and diverse a range of food as possible. Then, of course, you will
find that some other Ethnic restaurants also have "cross cultural"
ranges to their menues, and those menues are dictated by the
clientele, including foreign visitors too.
Incidentally, I applaud your waitress for her iniative in putting a
stop to your indecisiveness over the potatos you wanted by bringing
you such a selection and giving you the opportunity to try them all
if you wished, and thereby freeing herself sooner to give a faster
service to the other visitors that were waiting to dine also. Had she
not acted that way, you would probably have heard loud complaints
from some other patron over the delay that after all, you were
causing!!! ;¬) ;¬} ;¬]
Eileen, I would bet the bundle that you enjoyed yourself enormously
despite the over emphasis on spuds you experienced, why did you not
tell us if you enjoyed yourself or not, will you do that for me? And
tell us of something very positive you experienced while you were
here?
Thanks again, I love to hear from you, and I wonder how you would
feel now if you came to visit. For reasons that are far too complex
to go into here, most Irish people would tell you that in recent
years, say the past 6
the variety of potatos available, and even more concerning, the
terrible decline in the quality of the humble spud.
The declines I speak of are caused mainly by our membership of the
EC, European Community, they pay farmers to NOT grow cetain
vegetables, or to limit the amount they grow. This is to open up our
markets to other European countries exports. Therefore, most of the
spuds on offer here, are not Irish in origin anyway. Perhaps that's
why you are so ant our humble spuds, you mean, horrible foreigner
you, go back to your synthetic foods and make your pancreas go
beserk, leave our spuds alone!!!! ;¬) ;¬) ;¬}
Pat
IRISH BASED INTERNATIONAL MODERATOR!

BOy, it's just not like Denise not to be talking to us while she's in the
hospital. Does anybody have any idea what's going on with her? I miss her
and am worried about her. This time period has been entirely
toooooooooooooo long to not have heard from her or her family. Ree........
you seem to be closer to her than most of her family.... please keep
trying to get in touch or could you give me her # and I'll try and get in
touch with her? She has a huge heart toward TPP and i missss her,
terribly. Is there anything i can do? love, jan xox Ohhh. a prayer and
candle are here with her name on it and a prayer to go with it........
continually......... as with Robert. GOd bless them both. love, ja
xox

Ohhhh that sounds like good news to me! I so appreciate hearing his
condition as it continues.It's apparent to me that all of our prayers and
candles are getting through to "our Robert"! YEAH! RObert.......... we
continue to pray in candles for you day and night. Even my family is in
on the praying and has offered your story and support of prayer in their
various churches from California, to Michigan, to New York and all the way
down to Florida. You have touched me in more ways than i can
describe........... and my family is grateful for you and all the time and
research you have given to so many. Sso as of now....... you are included
in our family's all over the USA... iin prayer and in our hearts. We're
allll pulling for you and know that hhealing is right around the corner.
My brother,.......... let our love and prayer reach you and heal you. The
support will continue until you are aat home and back to the puter writing
your heart out. love, jan xox

Hello Karen!
One of my daughters is named Karen, I'm not sure if I have spoken
with another Karen before this!
Thank you so much for ypur input, I appreciate every effort that
someone makes on my behalf, especially a member of TPP because most
of the people here are either fellow siffers or caregivers, either
way, they sacrifice their time to try to help, thank you again Karen,
I will pray for your good intentions.
The links you have provided will definitly be used by me on Monday,
although I have done some research already, I have not had enough
time to do it in depth, any shortcuts are always appreciated.
I had come across the names you mention, nash and so on and there is
not a shred of doubt in my mind that NASH is the one applicable to me
as I do not drink alcohol at all now, and in the past I never abused
it for sure, and again, my consumption of alcohol would need to be
measured in units per 3 months rather than per week. Put simply,
alcohol could not possibly be the cause of any of my problems.
Moreover, there are volumes of proof that the lipid lowering drugs I
was taking are at the root of my fatty liver disease, and it is
almost certain to be either one of the factors that caused my panc
disease. Additionally, this drug MAY be the SINGLE cause of both of
these health issues for me anyway.
There is now no doubt that I have diabetes, they have assisted me to
control it by diet alone so far, however, my BLS's and my
triglyserides have now become "markedly" elevated, and one other
liver function factor is slightly "out of normal range".
For myself, I know exactly what my PCP's (GP here)methods and
motivations are with regard to this new developement and most of my
other difficulties, including "pitting oedema" in my legs, ankles and
feet. I have an appointment in early February with an eminent
specialist in the Capital City here, about 50 miles away, at one of
the countries main teaching hospitals and a "Centre of Excellence" in
many medical specialities. The man I will see is known primarily as
a Hepatologist, liver specialist, but he is also a Consultant
Specialist in Pancreatology, both of major importance to me now as
the appointment was made last year in relation to my Pancreaic
Disease, my fatty liver has only come to light in the past 10 days or
so. Another advantage of seeing this Specialist is the fact that he
is also in a Joint Private Practice with a number of other
Specialists, and one of them is the leading Endocrinololgist in the
country, a very handy association given my diabetic staus also!!
Once again, I thank you for your thoughtful advice and of course the
very valuable information you also brought to us.
God bless you and keep you safe and well.
Pat

ReeAnn,
thanks so much for letting us know that Robert is in the hospital. I am
glad they were able to get his blood sugar down. I cannot even imagine
having a blood sugar almost 1000! Thank goodness he went to the hospital!
Please let him know he is in my prayers.
Karen

Pat,
YES! I would make my husband 3 hours if it was to make my children happy!
I never in a million years would want anyone to try to make the damned country
gravy the way my mom does! I won't touch it! It is an attack waiting to
happen!
How are you feeling? You sound much better. I hope you are doing better, you
such a joy to have around to chat with! Everyone here is doing much better,
except of course me. I am in allot of pain and am hardly eating, just the
thought of food gets me going. I've lost over 10 lbs in the last week, and I do
not mind because I have it to lose.
I am sorry your son is heartbroken right now. I am firm believer in what is
meant to be will be so I am sure it is for the best. However, when you are
nursing a broken heart it is the last thing you want to hear.
Behave yourself and do not do anything to upset that wonderful woman you are
married too, she must truly be an angel sent from heaven to put up with the
likes of you! Take care of yourself my friend and get some rest!
Lisa
Simi Valley, CA

Pat, I spent one Christmas in Ireland, and the chinese food places
cracked me up - they do NOT serve chips or tea with milk in the US! I
know that you love your potatoes, but can't you have ONE meal without them?
The other thing that cracked me up - I went to a nice restaurant for
dinner, and the waitress asked me what kind of potatoes I wanted - they
offered about six kinds! When I wasn't sure (overwhelmed by the
possibilities), she dumped one of everything on my plate. I had a piece
of fish, some veggies and a MOUNTAIN of potatoes!
Otherwise, I starved - I was in a house with three guys who had nothing
but Guiness in the fridge.
Eileen

Pat,
thanks for understanding. I've been worried about Denise for awhile as I
know she wasn't doing too well when went into the hospital. Hopefully
she's keeping some contact with Ree and others. I think the holiday
season is hard on a lot of us. All the rushing around, seeing relatives
you might not see on a normal basis and such other things that go on
makes us all vulnerable to an attack or other sickness. I know that 2
years ago, I went into an acute attack because I had managed to pick up
bacterial pneumonia, which the pneumovax vaxine doesn't work on
bacterial pnuemonia, only viral forms. That admission was something of
a nightmare because the first doctor I got wanted to just treat the
pneumonia and send me home. After my GI reemed her a couple of times,
she eventually transfered me to another doctor who was a great deal more
amenable.
I hope things get better for those of us on this group who have been
having troubles and depression over the past few months.
Thanks,
Kimber
--
Kimber Allen
Vallejo, CA
hominid2@...
Note: All advice given is personal opinion, not equal to that of a licensed
physician or health care professional.

Hello {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Everyone}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Robert is in the hospital, his blood sugar was 973 when they admitted him last
night. I have been trying to reach him in his room, so far have not gotten
through. As soon as I do, I will post again. With an insulin drip they got his
blood sugar down around 200. And he is eating well. Will post more as soon as
I learn the details.
ReeAnn M. Betts-Morris - VA
CoOwner, ThePancreatitisPlace
434-409-7162

Hello Kimber!
You didn't so much upset me as confuse me, but lately it's not
difficult to confuse me, at times I feel I'm living in a home for the
bewildered!
ReeAnn has had an attack, and a nasty one too, but she did not go to
the ER upto Thursday I think she emailed me. Then, she was feeling
alot better so that's why I was surprised, however, this awful
disease is so unpredictable you just never know, do you?
Denise is a worry for me now, it's been well over a week since she
even posted a HELLO! never mind an update.
She had been very unwell for a time before she was hospitalised, ZENA
being so ill had taken it's toll, and all that on top of the stress
of the holiday period.
The membership was badly hit with illness once the Christmas had
passed, it seems to be a difficult time for people with Pancreatic
disease.
Anyway, I'm delighted that your home from the hospital and keeping
reasonably well, and, of course, that comes under the "GOOD NEWS"
heading, not too much of that about right now though.
Regards,
Pat
International Moderator

Pat and Louie,
the name for fatty liver is steatohepatitis. While it can be common, it can
also be quite serious. Are your liver enzymes elevated? Steatohepatitis is
one of the few liver diseases that the problem can be seen on ct scan or
ultrasound. To really know exactly what is going on with the liver, a liver
biopsy is required. If you do a search on steatohepatitis, you will find
lots of info. People often think of viral hepatitis when they hear the word
hepatitis, but it only means inflamation of the liver. Dr. Melissa Palmer
has a book on the various types of liver disease and hepatitis, her web site
is quite helpful. Here's the link
http://www.liverdisease.com/
Oh, I forgot, fatty liver disease is also sometimes called NASH -
non-alcoholic steatohepatitis or NALFD - non-alcoholic fatty liver disease.
Here's an article that's on the American Liver Foundation's site
http://www.liverfoundation.org/db-select/articles/CatNonAlcy/1/1/ascend/Validate\
d
Oh, don't know if you guys have diabetes, but NASH is more common in people
with diabetes.
One of the most universal symptoms of any liver disease is fatigue. I had
no idea how very important a properly functioning liver is until I found out
that I have autoimmune liver disease. I'm not trying to scare you guys but
I would be hesitant to allow a doctor to poo poo any type of liver disease
without thoroughly investigating what's going on in your body.
I'm not a doctor, nor am I an expert on NASH, but I do think you guys should
do a little research on your own and just make sure the doctors are doing
what they should do to help you protect your liver.
take care,
Karen

Patrick,
this email was from some time ago in response to one from Ree. I've been
offline for about a month and am catching up on them. I don't remember
the exact date of Ree's post, but she was already out when I got the
post and was even farther in the past when I replied to it today. Sorry
to upset you Pat.
I didn't realize that Denise was hospitalized, so thanks for letting me
know. I've just spend the past three days going through 3,000 emails,
many of them repeats due to my email system accidently making copies of
many of them.
Kimber
--
Kimber Allen
Vallejo, CA
hominid2@...
Note: All advice given is personal opinion, not equal to that of a licensed
physician or health care professional.

01/25/04
Hang in there Cheybear5. Iv'e been through what your going through
and it's very hard. Sometimes you just want to give up. But your
help will come and I will think about you tonight and hope that you
get some relief and some support.
I'm a new member with Heriditary Pancreatitis, that I have had
sence I was just a little girl. I'm now 45 yrs. old, and sometimes I
think to myself , " How did I get this far ".
It's very,very hard but you can count on my support always. If you
want to talk to me , just give me a post!
We need to stick together for US!.
God Bless You,
Laura Kerste at
laura_kerst@..., Toledo, Ohio

Chey,
There is no way on earth that I would deliberately hurt you my
friend, I care too much for all my friends here to ever do that to
anyone.
There is no other way to approach this other than to say, once again,
we all told you to do this earlier in the week. you have put yourself
through immense suffering and distress for all this time and you
eventually have to give in and go to the ER, exactly as we all asked
you to do, and jim also asked you to go.
We all still love you and will support you but on this occasion you
were not very fair to Jim, your care giver on this occasion anyway.
I'm not saying that you have been moaning or anthing like that, but
for a while you have said that Jim won't give you the THE SUPPORT YOU
NEED, am I right Chey? I'm asking you but I know I'm right and I
know that anyone reading this will know also. But now, I have to ask
you if the reality is that Jim won't give you the SUPPORT YOU WANT.
They are not the same thing you know, not at all.
There is every reason to believe from the posts that we read this
week that JIM wanted you to go to the hospital, he was more than
prepared to drive you there and wait with you to swee that you got a
proper treatment from the staff.
IT WAS YOU THAT WOULD NOT SUPPORT JIM THIS TIME CHEY, OH YES, IT WAS!!
We all supported Jim as he posted frantically at all hours try to get
ideas and help for what you needed. and we told him, EVERYONE THAT
REPLIED told him what to do. you were the one to hold out and now you
are waiting for him to came back and take you to the ER.
There is a need for me to understand why Jim went out today to work
and left you home alone as you say, and the reason I think he did it
was because you were telling him the same as you were telling us,
THAT YOU WERE OK AGAIN NOW THAT YOU GOT OXYCONTIN AGAIN!
Chey, all that happened was that the pain meds simply made you feel
better because they stopped the withdrawls you had.
I hate saying things like this, but sometimes people need to be told
the truth outright, with no dancing on eggshells in case someones
feet get hurt. Well guess what Chey, I am not dancing on eggshells
this time. When you get to see Jim you should apologise to him for
not supporting him this time and thank him for the support he gave
you too.
And what about your children? Could theybe avoiding you or leaving
you alone because you won't do anything they ask you either?
Maybe, just maybe, your children are thinking a little straighter
than you are right now. No one is expected to be in control when
they are really ill with the type of pain and other symptoms that you
must have if your disease is the same as all the other people on this
site with Pancreatic disease. First off, the pain meds we have totake
are such that they impair our senses, we are warnwed not to drive or
go nerar machinery when we take them. Maybe there should be a warning
on them about how they can makle you do the wrong things at times,
make the wrong decisions maybe. Because that's what they do, to
everyone but some are affectred more than others. But, we develope
ways to get past the strange things they do to our minds, but when we
stop taking them, especially suddenly like you did, then we are
unable to know or make out how we should be acting. Should we act the
same as when we are taking the pills? Or should we act the way we
used to act before we took the pills, can we be trusted to remember
EXACTLY how we should behave ? I think the answer is I have not got
a clue!
Because I just leave it to someone else to decide and I go along with
that. And there is good reason to do that, after all, we ask them for
help, and when theygive it to us we should thank God for it and not
fight them all the way.
From the bottom of my heart I hope you go to the ER soon, and I
equally hope and pray that you get the treatment you need, and I hope
they keep you in the hospital for at least a week to give Jim and
your children a little rest too, they deserve it, just as you do.
God bless you Chey, i hope you get weel real soon
Pat

Louie,
Yes, I did get a chuckle over your hubby's reaction. My hubby and I have a
sadistic sense of humor. We tell everyone that he is poisoning me. When he
fixes me a cup of coffee, he asks if he put the right amount of rat poison
in it. I told my friend's son that Bud is slowly poisoning me with his
cooking so if I do die, that he is to tell the police that Bud poisoned me
and then he will get a big reward. He said, "Okay, I can live with that!"
(the reward) He's only 7 but even he knows how kookie my hubby and I are -
joking about killing each other, poison, etc. Of course this is the same
little boy that just the other day told his mom that he was going to be a
famous researcher and find a cure for lupus so I would be well! Of course,
if I do just happen to die before he gets old enough to discover the cure
for lupus, he'd gladly accept the reward money for turning my hubby over to
the police for poisoning me! :)
Karen W

Hello Little Simi Valey Snow Queen!
You know, your one of the strangest people I have ever met, you give
out receipes for gravey made woth sausage fat and grease to people
that have no business eating such pancreas crunching stuff.
then you tell us you had your husband drive for over 3 hours to get
to a place covered in snow that you say that you say you hate,
AND WORSE STILL, YOU LOVE RATS TOO. YUK.
ARE YOU FOR REAL GIRL!!!!!
Hello Lisa,
How're doing my sweet little Princess? I hope your keeping real well
and that the little ones are over their colds or 'flu or whatever
disease they probably got from playing with RATS.
I read your post to Ale, she is such a sweetie too, she was so upset
last week, I really thought she wouls give up on her dreams and
return to just get swallowed up in Colombia and we would probably
never gotten to speak with her again. that would have been just too
sad for an old manlike me to bear. I'm not all that old really, I'll
be 57 4th of next month, same day as my son Wesley. He's a junior
chef and he liked the sauce too but said he would rather try to make
it from the "Ground Up" to use a phrase.
He makes me smile, he hardly manages to cook more than a chicken
burger in the micrwave whenhe's home. Say's he cook enough all day
when he's in work.
We have a lovesick older son at the moment, he just broke up with his
girlgriend of about 4 years. they had been together and living in an
apartment down town for almost 2 years and she got a chance to join
the Police here, which is great paying job, but not one I would want
any of my kids to go into if I'm to be honest.
The job of a policeman or woman here is no way as dangerous as in the
US, although there is a steady increase in violent crime for the past
few years, it is a big worry here, we are not used to guns being used
during crime. Our police officers on patrol are not armed, only
special units and many detectives are armed all the time, I think
Ireland and the UK are the last two countries to have an unarmed
police force, but I doubt it will remain that way for too much longer.
A great pity really.
Back to the gravy Lisa, it really was delish', I can imagine eating
it with just mashed portatos, but I suspect that when you
say "biscuits", you mean something totally different thing to
biscuits here. I believe your "cookies" are the same as our
biscuits, they are baked sweet and usually flat or covered or filled
with more sweet stuff.
I suspect that your "biscuits are some form of Freshly baked small
bread rolls or something similar. We would never dream of eating a
biscuit with mashed potato and or sauce, unless it was choclate
sauce!
The Country Sauce tasted a little, only a little "hint" like a sauce
we used to get here with the original "KFC", not the stuff they sell
world wide now, this was way back before the Mafia bought out the
whole show from the old COLONEL SAUNDERS KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN!
that old style one was totally delicious, it was tasty beyond belief.
the new one, on sale today, is just awful, bit has virtually no taste
at all, mind you,I have not eaten it for over as year now, but I see
them eating here and the boys often come home late and leave the damn
box on the kitchen table and slope off to bed, probably full of beer
too! the smell next morning is enough to make a pig puke, awful.
The sauce they sell now is barly thick enough to stick to the chicken
or even a skinny frie, it's got little or no flavour either.
We certainly enjoyed the taste, if we were making that here we would
most likely make it slightly brown, most meat sauces are brown, white
sauces usually are used with fish. ther are a few exceptions, like
parsley sauce, which is white and looks very much like your packet
Country Sauce too, very similar in appearance.
We would tend to have that with boiled ham or boiled bacon.
Now, almost everyone eats Chinese or Italian, mostly take aways, but
the do deliver chinese food and pizzas, that's about all theydeliver
generally speaking.
Hey, Hey, there I go again, talking about food with you, you are the
Devil's plaything, you are here to tempt alL us suffering PANC people
to eat all the wrong foods and then end rolling the floor in agony!!
I'm going, I have broken all the rules and come downstairs during the
night when Lliy is asleep and sneaked onto the PC to have a little
fun. I won't lie to her, I'll tell her tomorrow morning, I never lie,
not to anyone, it's something I have no time for because it means you
don't have trust as far as I am concerned. how can I lie to someone I
have been married to for 36 years now, and she was also my first
girlfriend too!! But we did see others for a few years, not many but
a few, so really, we know each other for about 43 years now, it's a
full lifetime really. I could get depressed thinking like this,
Goodnight, and God bless, it's 5am and I better get to bed again!
Pat

Robert,
thinking about you too. Hope you get thing calmed down soon.
Kimber
--
Kimber Allen
Vallejo, CA
hominid2@...
Note: All advice given is personal opinion, not equal to that of a licensed
physician or health care professional.

Hi,
I so sorry that you are having so much pain and your meds are helping. It
is quite frustrating when we reach that point. It's like we don't know what
direction to turn.
I really understand what you said by saying you don't show your pain and you
sometimes don't think others know what your going thru because of it. How
old are your children? Sometimes we get to the point where we need to get
to the hospital to get more relief. I hope you are able to get there soon
to get the relief that you sound like you real need and that's not just
pain shot to knock you out and then send you home and then only a few hours
later you wake up still in pain. Hopefully they will be able to adjust your
pain medicine and give you something that will work much better. Keep us
posted on how your are doing and I hope you feel better very soon.
Take Care,
Louie (A Lady) in WV

Jan,
it will probably take a couple of weeks for the glucosamine to take
effect, so don't expect an instant cure, but you should get less stiff
and sore over time. I know it helps my cat Smokey from hurting. When
she's hurting, she spends all of her time up on my bed with the electric
blanket (I leave it on for her when I'm home) and when she's taking the
tablets, she runs around and plays with the younger cat Riffraff. Also,
if you can't find Gllucosamine Sulfate, Glucosamine Chonidritin will
work too, actually it's supposed to be better then the Sulfate one.
People usually start off on the Sulfate and if still hurting some,
switch to the chondritin form.
Kimber
--
Kimber Allen
Vallejo, CA
hominid2@...
Note: All advice given is personal opinion, not equal to that of a licensed
physician or health care professional.

Hellom Jac,
My Dear,Special Friend,
I am so, so sorry to hear that you are feeling unwell, perhaps you
will feel better very soon. Just like me, you are blessed that you
have someone that cares so much for you. i really feel so sorry for
those that have chronic illnes's and have to live alone. they must be
very sad a lot of the time, do you think so too Jac?
You better stop saying that you are just ramlbing on!! I found your
story very interesting, and I bet that many other members enjoy it
when you post too. Everyone has a story to tell, and some information
to pass on too, just as you have done with this post.

Hi Pat and Lisa,
Pat , I really enjoyed reading you post and your wife's reaction. I'm
sitting here laughing as I read it. Well, then you described what your were
talking about. Country Gravy. Well, Pat don't feel bad. I live here and
never have heard about Country Gravy either. Lisa, what do you eat it with
and does it taste like other Gravy. I'm glad that Pat said that McCormick's
make it. The next time I go to the store, I must buy some and try it. I'm
glad that we can get McCormick's product here at our loc